[Home] [How to Measure Your Beliefs] [The Man-Made Church] [Misc]
[Home]>[Misc]>[4. Correspondence]>[4.25 Curtis Lee Hall (3)]
4.25 Curtis Lee Hall (3)
5. Mail (from Curtis Lee Hall)
I've been reading your book on the man-made church. I have quite enjoyed what I have read. There is one thing I would like to bring up to you though. You quote from the letter to the Laodiceans by Jakob Lorber. I personally would love to find all of Paul's writings, and I do suspect that they could have been destroyed intentionally. But I have a very hard time with Jakob Lorber. I link to an article below that is suppose to be his revelation on Saturn for an example. Have you read this?? He seems to have many so-called revelations of the same caliber. He claims Saturn is swarming with people, animals, etc. This may have been believable in the mid 1800's, but seems sort of ridiculous today. What are your thoughts?
Also, I just finished an article called 'A Worker is Worthy of His Wages?'. It can be found at:
If you have the time, could you read it and give me your thoughts?
Thanks!! God bless!
"We stink more of the world than we stink of sack cloth and ashes. A lot of contemporary churches today would feel more at home in a movie house rather than in a house of prayer, more afraid of holy living than of sinning, know more about money than magnifying Christ in our bodies. It is so compromised that holiness and living a sin-free life is heresy to the modern church. The modern church is, quite simply, just the world with a Christian T-shirt on!" - Nicky Cruz
6. Mail (to Curtis Lee Hall)
You ask, "Have you read this??"
I think I have read all what is available on the net, or rather what I have found there, from Jakob Lorber, and therefore also "Saturn." I however read the original German version, but there is no reason to assume that the English translation is not reflecting what is there in German.
Then you write, "He claims Saturn is swarming with people, animals, etc. This may have been believable in the mid 1800's, but seems sort of ridiculous today."
In my previous mail to you I wrote: "The real Christian life is heresy to the modern church and this situation is quite scriptural and nicely described in the Bible and it is a little bid expanded in chapter 27 of The Man-Made Church: Diotrephes, the Man of Orthodoxy. You are invited to have a look at it:
The main aim of Orthodoxy was and is to fight God and that means everything of a spiritual nature. And we have been brainwashed by this for 2000 years. It is so much part of our life that we think it to be ridiculous when we come across ideas that are not in line with science or our religious upbringing. And the religious things are just accepted in that context only. If we think normally then they are more or less treated as some fairy stuff.
We man have only a capacity to hear a certain frequency range, dogs can for example hear things we do not hear. With cats it is similar; with their whiskers they can perceive things that are not perceptible to us and also not to certain other animals. I just have to think of the stuff Tom Lethbridge investigated. And all the waves that are all around us all the time and which we can perceive only when we use certain gadgets like radios, or TV-sets, or cell phones. They are there but with our normal senses we do not see or hear them.
What happens to all the stuff we dream when we wake up? Where is it after we become conscious in the morning? A moment ago is was all still very real and gripped our emotions and another moment and it is all gone. Also when we were asleep we were conscious. When we woke up we just changed consciousness.
The same when we fall asleep. Then all the things we perceive with our bodily senses become nonexistent, but they are apparently still there. We now perceive with our spiritual senses and at the time of sleeping all this is reality to us. But during the time of sleeping the world we are in then is not swarming with people, animals, etc.
The same when a person dies. Suddenly he finds himself on bare ground and can't see anything else because his untrained spirit is not able to see anything of a spiritual nature and as he has never practised spiritual things he will see nothing, just a dark landscape and all the spiritual beings around him will remain invisible to him. He is like an astronaut stepping on the surface of the moon - or of Saturn - and there he only sees what his worldly mind is used to perceive. All the spiritual beings remain hidden for him.
The same applies to all the spiritual beings that are around us and which we do not see and do not hear. There are the people who died and were spiritually more or less dead, before they died and also afterwards, and are now earthbound, and cannot go to higher spiritual levels and they are living right among us and sometimes someone's spiritual eyes are opened and they are seen and heard and then they might be called names like ghosts or so, but mentioned only when it is safe because someone might ridicule such things.
There we have it already this influence of religion. And science is the same. Religion and science are just part of the system of the world and of the god of this world and therefore of the antichristian system.
What we call science is not really science because they automatically exclude everything of a spiritual nature from their science and therefore the whole thing is just a big lie because how can one exclude one area of men's experience and then claim that to be knowledge. Since men have been on this planet there are reports of experiences with spiritual beings but scientists exclude all this from their so-called scientific work.
There are plenty of spirits around us who minister to us and who are light bearers and who have duties like protecting us and eagerly trying to get us to see the light - even if it means to shock us into the kingdom with things like accidents or suffering.
What about all the spiritual beings who organize and manage and are responsible for all the aspects of growth of plant life?
Just let someone talk of elves and gnomes and he will have lost his credibility.
What about a person who has an out of body experience and now cannot be seen by normal people? But his spiritual body might be visible to certain persons whose spiritual eyes are opened and another person standing right next to the one who can see, cannot see this spiritual being. I think of the experiences of Robert Monroe.
The world around us is full of all kinds of spiritual beings and depending on their spiritual level they themselves can see or can hardly see anything.
People who die and who are spiritually underdeveloped have problems to see anything on the other side. They walk around in darkness and might just see some sand underneath them and that is all. And so it is with spiritual dead people who land on the moon and there they see nothing, but actually the moon might be populated with many kinds of beings, but they are not visible to an unspiritual being. And Jakob Lorber has much to say about beings on the moon.
Now the existence of spiritual beings is common knowledge of mankind. In all parts of the world there are people who report about them. And that happens since thousands of years. All over the world man testify to their existence and a man's testimony is accepted under normal people. A court of law bases much of its decisions on the testimony of men. But the religious guys and the scientific guys ridicule such testimonies.
Let me give you an example. Jakob Lorber and Bertha Dudde describe in great detail how the physical world was created and that is known since decades, but for the scientific world it is ridiculous. The scientists' ideas how the world came into being make hardly any sense. A man like Rudolf Steiner actually saw how creation took place and described the process in great detail but even people who like his ideas and support his work have problems with him, Rudolf Steiner, being a seer. They talk and write about all his ideas but when it comes to the fact that he was a seer, that he had supernatural abilities, that he could see into the spiritual realm, that he could read the book of life and read things that happened many eternities ago, then they shy away from things like that and keep very quiet about them.
Let me give you another example. Rudolf Steiner was in Europe, and so were Jakob Lorber and Bertha Dudde; in America was a man like Don Juan about whom Carlos Castaneda reported and he had the ability so change his state of consciousness and could even change the consciousness of others, for example the consciousness of Carlos Castanede. And there it is called the moving of the assemblage point. If you want to read a bit more about it go to http://countdown4us.com/en04/en0452.htm were this ability is discussed in connection with the abilities Jesus had in the 40 days between his resurrection and his ascension.
Another site is http://countdown4us.com/en03.htm, it will open a new world for you.
Let me give you yet another example. Let us go to Africa and see what a Sangoma does. When a man goes to a Sangoma then he will just appear there and will tell her nothing about himself and about the reason why he came and expect the Sangoma to give him this information and when then the Sangoma is able to provide him with this information then he will have proof that this Sangoma has abilities from the spiritual kingdom and he will then also accept the Sangoma's advice. But what would the so-called scientific world have to say to such a request of being able to tell a person what his situation is without having been told about it? When someone came to a scientist, let us say a psychologist, and would ask him to give him an interpretation of a dream, then the psychologist would request that the man tells him his dream, and when then this man refuses to do so and even demands of the psychologist to tell him what the dream was, then this so-called scientist would probably have this to say: "There is no man upon the earth that can shew the king's matter." That is Daniel 2:10. It does not matter if we look at the time of Nebuchadnezzar or at our time today, the scientists, the Chaldeans, the magicians, the astrologers, are always the same, they cannot imagine something that is not materialistic. But all over the world at all millennia there have been and are women and men, like the Sangoma, who are in contact with the spiritual beings around them, and it does not matter if we call them ancestors, or spirits or whatever. They are there, on this earth and also on the moon or on Saturn. All heavenly bodies have this purpose to serve as maturation stations for beings, as school houses for spiritual beings at different stages of development.
Now if you go to Africa you will find a lot of so-called Christian missionaries there but are such men able to contact spiritual beings and commune with them and draw valuable information from them like a genuine sangoma does? It is very unlikely and it is much more likely that they preach a Christianity that actually encourages people to stay away from the real spiritual things and which labels the work of a sangoma as evil. What they should do is teach the people and the sangomas a better way - the Way.
Now this subject is an important one because it concerns the spiritual world and this spiritual world is much more important than the physical world, which is just temporary and we are supposed to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. We live by faith, not by sight. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. We should - consciously - always be in contact with the spiritual beings around us - with the ones of them who are light bearers - and commune with them and draw strength and guidance from them. Read Bertha Dudde and you will find much in this direction.
But this subject is even more important in our time when we accept that we live in the last days because that is what it will be all about in the tribulation, that we will be forced to deny these spiritual aspects of ours. And when we understand this then we will see how this fight against God, against everything that is of a spiritual nature, is escalating. These tendencies to ridicule things like Lorber describing beings that are not visible in normal circumstances will become much stronger and the stage we are now in is just the warming up stage and when we now already are influenced by it then we will have problems not falling under the influence of Antichrist. Go to a normal so-called Christian website and see all the things offered there and the authors referred to and the works of them quoted or linked to and see the tendencies there where much of Christian things are dealt with but where the real key issues are avoided like the things we are talking here about, the supernatural, the spiritual beings around us, the stages of consciousness Jesus went through during the days between Easter Sunday and the Day of Ascension, where he changed forms of consciousness. I have never read anything about this - except in the Bible - and had to work out these things for myself. The so-called Christian world avoids talking about it and therefore is under the influence of Antichrist who does not want us to know about it, who just wants us to be nice Christians who are busy with religion but do not really believe and practise spiritual things, but find them to be ridicules. And when these Christians then come across writings such as the ones from Jakob Lorber and Bertha Dudde then they are discarded because they must be just imaginations.
And when we do not understand this - the spiritual side of ours - then we will not be able to defend our faith in the times of tribulation and we will be ridiculed and give up our faith and fall into the hands of the adversary.
Now a key to be able to discern between so-called Christian writers who are not really handling the real issues of a life with Christ and them who do, is a very practical one, is a key which we can easily make use of - if we know this key. And this key is to find out if such writers write in order to help us to grow spiritually or if they write mainly in order to make a monetary profit from it. And now we have arrived at the second subject of your mail: A Worker is Worthy of His Wages?
To write about this subject, as you have done, is so important, because it is a subject that again and again has been veiled and obscured by the religious guys because they do not want to be unmasked.
When we read anything, even if it is non-Christian, we should make it a habit to find out if the writer makes money out of what he is writing and we will get a better idea about the worth of his product.
Now I just read, for the second time, your "A Worker is Worthy of His Wages?" and what struck me was your quotation "Carry no money belt, no bag" because I had to think of the man who got married and whose wedding festival was attended by Jesus and his mother and which was recorded in the book of books. This man was later on visited again by Jesus and he asked Jesus, if he could join Jesus and his disciples and go with them and Jesus allowed him to do so and told him when he, Jesus, would leave to be ready by then. And when the time came to leave this man was ready and stood before Jesus to show him that he was ready to leave. And Jesus looked at him and told him to get rid of his baggage and just keep the cloth on his body. And the man did as Jesus told him.
Let me quote this passage directly:
The landlord is very happy about that, straightaway he takes his satchel and some money and gets ready to leave.
But I say to him: "Free yourself of all, then you will walk much easier; because the thieves only attack those about whom they know that they carry something on them! But if you have nothing then they also cannot take anything away!"
After that the landlord hands over his money and satchel to his wife and so follows me without money and satchel.
Now this is good advice and will be very helpful in the times of the end when everything will be taken away from us and when we then have nothing, the effect will also be nothing.
The people who are not really believers do not believe that God will provide for them, that when they seek the kingdom all else will be provided for them.
Now this information about this man out of the wedding in Cana of Galilee I got from "The Great Gospel of John" by Jakob Lorber.
In that Gospel it is again and again reported how this - "and all these things will be given to you as well" (Matthew 6:33) - worked for the people who followed Jesus on earth and who sought first his kingdom and his righteousness. Again and again this group of people found themselves in situations where they needed accommodation and provisions like food and how it suddenly was provided for them at the right time and without charge.
I highly recommend to read that great book of Jakob Lorber and your vision of Jesus Christ will become much greater and your life of love as well.
That this book of Jakob Lorber is not mentioned again and again in Christian circles is just another sign that these Christian circles are not really Christian, but that they rather are there to obscure the things of Christ and keep people away from knowledge of Christ. Such Christian circles are for example Christian bookshops. You will hardly find Jakob Lorber's works there.
Now as I continue reading - for the second time - your article, I find that everything you write there is scriptural and that you expose many things there that the so-called Christian church does, but which is against the Bible, and furthermore I am thinking about you trying to get your material published through the normal Christian channels of publication and how the reaction would be and how the Christian publishing world would shrink away from such material because it would upset their clients and expose them and furthermore how they would not publish it because such things do not sell - they could not make a profit out of it.
For you and me it is a big thing to get religion out of our system and I again and again find areas where I have to let a reformation take place and have to revise my thinking but there is one thing that you and me seem to have and that is the earnest desire for truth - to find truth.
When Jesus appeared after Easter, for example in the upper room or on the way to Emmaus, and also when he ascended, he was seen by believers only, only they could see something in another realm, only their spiritual eyes were opened, others saw nothing.
And so it is today. A real believer is in contact with the spiritual kingdom, he practises the presence of God and for the unbelievers such things are ridiculous.
And even among Christians very often one talks about everything but avoids the real issues of our faith.
For a believer it should be ridiculous that so-called scientists make great efforts to try to make contact with beings on other planets in space and therefore ignore that this happens all the time since ages and that people all over the world do it and that it is recorded in the most modern communication systems as well as in most of the ancient documents known to men. Such ignorance should be called ridiculous. A better way would be to call it utter stupidity.
Go into a public library and the information is all there. Everybody has access to it but people who call themselves scientists behave as if it does not exist. And they do this because they have the same attitude as the religionists: they actually believe nothing except that what they do is a good way to make money. A person with such an attitude can never be seen as one who really seeks the truth, who has the credentials to teach others, to be an example for society.
What scientists are doing can be compared to the attitude of a man who declares that everything scientists do is absolute nonsens and unreal and therefore declares one area of human experience as non existing.
If what Lorber writes is ridiculous then what happened on Easter Sunday should be called highly ridiculous and what happened on the Day of Ascension should also be called highly ridiculous and all the things that happened in between, in these 40 days should be declared as being utter heresy and then we would have a Christianity as it really is today.
We should start to realize how much more every day we are letting ourselves get influenced by the materialists and that we hardly do anything against it. That the law of God more and more gets pushed aside. That the time of this humanity is drawing to a close.
And when the end-times really get hot and the half-believers are getting sorted out and all their unbelief is getting exposed then their lack of knowledge and belief of biblical things will reveal their ignorance and they will become easy prey for the opponent of God.
I have written much about the supernatural aspects of the human being, especially in the chapters 20 to 24 of The Man-Made Church, and that would be an area for science to get really busy with, to unify the different areas of human knowledge and respect all known knowledge and really do something for the advance of mankind - in the right direction. And I have to add that this advice applies to religionists as well; that would be the stuff for the theologians to get into.
A theologian is a person who has knowledge about God and therefore such a person should be very busy obtaining and spreading such knowledge and helping himself and others to again obtain that status which we all had initially, being created in the image of God, being gods.
All the best from
Frank L. Preuss
Now follows a list of links mentioned in above two emails:
Curtis Lee Hall
A Worker is Worthy of His Wages?
In the beginning
Frank L. Preuss: The Man-Made Church
27. Diotrephes, the Man of Orthodoxy
Redemption Period: Second Coming
Frank L. Preuss: The Man-Made Church
20. Book of Life
22. Mind and Body
23. Mind and Soul
24. Mind and Spirit
254: Celestial bodies. Laws of nature. Research in vain.
Return to Miscellaneous:
[Home]>[Misc]>[4. Correspondence]>[4.25 Curtis Lee Hall (3)]
[Home] [How to Measure Your Beliefs] [The Man-Made Church] [Misc]
The address of this page is: